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Pressure on Adoption Worker’s Family

Ron Reigns:

Welcome, and thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption with Kelly Rourke-Scarry and me, Ron Reigns, where we delve into adoption issues from every angle of the adoption triad.

Speaker 2:

Do what’s best for your kid and yourself because if you can’t take care of yourself, you will not be able to take care of that kid, and that’s not fair.

Speaker 3:

And I know my daughter would be well taken care of with them.

Speaker 4:

Don’t have an abortion. Give this child a chance.

Speaker 5:

All I could think about was needing to save my son.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

My name is Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I am the executive director, president, and co-founder of the Building Arizona Families adoption agency, the Donna K. Evans Foundation, and the creator of the You Before Me campaign. I have a bachelor’s degree in family studies and human development and a master’s degree in education with an emphasis on school counseling. I was adopted at three days, born to a teen birth mother, raised in a closed adoption, and reunited with my birth mother in 2007. I have worked in the adoption field for over 15 years.

Ron Reigns:

And I’m Ron Reigns. I’ve worked in radio since 1999. I was the co-host of two successful morning shows in Prescott, Arizona. Now I work for my wife, an adoption attorney, and I can combine these two great passions and share them on this podcast.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

One question, as an adoption worker, that I get asked, it’s pretty frequent, and we’re using these podcasts as a platform to get information out there to educate society about what all aspects of adoption are like, is. Does it put pressure on family members? I would say that the working adoption community behind the scenes, what we’re exposed to, the truth, the myths, and more, is something that we need to dive into because adoption isn’t just a birth mother, a baby, and an adoptive family. It takes a community. Ron, you know this better than anybody else because your evenings, weekends, and lifestyle are interrupted just as much as our household.

Ron Reigns:

Right, constantly.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Constantly. What’s funny is, as we’ve shared before, not only is Lisa the attorney for Building Arizona Families, but you’re also my brother-in-law. So when we have a mom that delivers, everything halts in our family.

Ron Reigns:

Right. Yeah. That family gathering we were going to do, the picnic in the park, gets put on hold, but everybody understands it because they’re all involved.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Right. It’s true.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

As we begin this podcast, I want to emphasize I’m speaking from my personal experience. I know, Ron, you’re speaking from your personal experience-

Ron Reigns:

Absolutely.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

As well as the opinions and stories from adoption colleagues and coworkers that have been shared with me. When I’m hiring a new social worker for the adoption agency, I describe working in the adoption field as the best and worst job you’ll ever have. Even calling it a job is a loose term because it becomes a lifestyle, a passion, a mission, an all-consuming force that doesn’t ever stop. You’re laughing because you know how true-

Ron Reigns:

Because I’m in this force. Right.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Exactly. When you work in the adoption world, it’s an emotional roller coaster. Time is no longer your own. You do formulate beliefs, and they become rock solid. You become resolute, and not only do you become resolute, but those that you love and care about around you, you want them to adopt the same passion with your velocity. You want everybody to get on that bus and shout out the windows because this has become your all. This is another child per se, which is what it is like working in the adoption world.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

As the agency director and having been adopted, I guess mine is twofold. Our poor children are just exposed to this time two. I have had workers over the last 16 years who have been in the agency for five or six years, and it sometimes becomes too much. It’s more than they can stand, affecting their family members. Then I have my lifers, the ones that have been with us, and I don’t think I could get out the door if I wanted to because this is their whole existence.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

In talking about this, I thought it would be enjoyable to dive into it and help people understand why it is the way it is, the excitement, the emotional roller coaster. When you’re working with a woman who is placing a baby for adoption, even as a trained social worker who has worked with many women, you do get, I don’t want to say, sucked in, but you do get drawn into her emotions because you care. That’s why we’re social workers. This is not for the paycheck. It is because we love what we do and want to help others. We want to help.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

When they’re having a hard day, and you’re getting a text at 9:00 at night, it’s not that you can just put your phone away. You have to respond, not because the job says you have to, because-

Ron Reigns:

But because you care.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

You care and want to ensure she’s okay—an example. Last night, I watched a new series with one of my sons, and I was texting a new mom coming into our program. This week she’s coming in. We were texting back and forth, and my son was saying, “This is our daytime. Do you have to be on the phone?”

Ron Reigns:

Can this wait?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Of course, it was respectful and everything. I said, “I’m so sorry, but I do. This is our lifestyle,” and he knew. It stopped there in terms of the questions because we can’t clone ourselves as much as we want to be everything for everybody. The adoption world is, in many ways, like quicksand—it kind of sucks you in, and once you get in, you never get out.

Ron Reigns:

Right. Either that or you’ve got your five-year term, and I’ve got to get out.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Right. Yeah, right.

Ron Reigns:

Out of curiosity, when you have an employee and compare them, you’ve got your five-year ones and your lifers; what do you think the ratio is? Especially when you first get into this field, you’re passionate about it and all-in. It’s not to criticize anybody. It is a very taxing lifestyle to continue, and that’s for them to get out. But what do you think the ratio is between those who stay a little while and those that stay for the long haul?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

I can tell you that I don’t think it’s a ratio. I have watched this for 16 years. I have found that those connected to adoption, whether they have been adopted or whether a family member has been placed for adoption, are the lifers.

Ron Reigns:

Really? Okay. Interesting.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

The ones that can finally cut the cord and walk away are those that don’t have some actual, I don’t want to say, physical connection to adoption. The ratio would depend on how much of the staff has that connection.

Ron Reigns:

Has been associated with it.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Right. I have seen that workers want to adopt in the future; they won’t leave. They understand that there are times in adoption when you want to throw the computer through the window or take every paper and shred it. I think that the connection and the draw are when. The stability comes when there is a red string to adoption. Those are the ones that have that pull, that force, where they do stay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Now, that’s not to say that. We have other women who have been with us that are lifers that maybe don’t have a direct connection to adoption, but maybe they have a stepparent adoption in their household, or they are raising their grandchildren, and they’re looking to adopt them. It’s not just the classic adoptee, adoptive parents, or birth mother. There are other ways. But I rarely see people who are vested walk away.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Then again, it can become a passion that you adopt that you can’t let go of. Let me give you an example, and this would be a personal example for you. With regards to abortion, I don’t ever think that your stance right now will ever lessen, change, or deviate from the feelings that you have today. I think it will only increase-

Ron Reigns:

Because of my experiences.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Huh?

Ron Reigns:

Because of my experiences that are personally connected to it. Right.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Right. I think it will only increase and strengthen, which sometimes happens parallel to people who come into the adoption world.

Ron Reigns:

That makes a lot of sense. No, I was just curious about how that manifested in the business in who stays and who doesn’t. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Yeah. You’re welcome.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

This all-consuming career choice is tough to explain to family and friends. One of my best friends in the world lives in San Diego. She and I have been friends since I was 12. When I graduated from college in Arizona, and we both had kids simultaneously, she would come out, go to the movies, and do girls’ nights. We stopped going to the movies years ago because my stepping out into the lobby and missing five to 20 minutes of a movie got to the point where she would say, “You know what, I love you as a friend.”

Ron Reigns:

But I can’t watch a movie with you.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Yeah, we’re not going to the movies anymore. To be fair, we haven’t gone to a movie in over, I think, eight or nine years. I understand, and I’m not offended by it. I understand.

Ron Reigns:

She isn’t trying to hurt your feelings by saying she doesn’t. But yeah, I get that.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

After dipping out of movie after movie and having to come back in and say, “What happened?” No, nobody wants that.

Ron Reigns:

What’d I miss?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

I completely understand. Yeah. So it’s hard to explain to somebody outside of the adoption world that this isn’t a job you can walk away from. It’s not something that, “Oh, it’s 5:00,” punch your time card, and now you don’t have to think about it. It’s not that. Babies are born 24/7/365. Yes, they’re born on Christmas and New Year’s and Thanksgiving and-

Ron Reigns:

Fourth of July, every holiday you can imagine. They don’t stop having babies.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

It is. That really can take a toll on your family. It was maybe three or four years ago. It was Christmas morning, and I had two case workers signing adoption consents. I’m sure this affected your Christmas morning as well. It was about 9:00 on Christmas morning, and there was a little bit of an issue with the consent. Actually, no, it was earlier. It was probably about 8:00 in the morning, and we were right in the middle of unwrapping presents.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

I told a white lie and told my kids I had to run to the restroom quickly. I run behind the door, so they can’t see me. I’m on the phone with the case worker giving instructions on handling the crisis. Meanwhile, I’m peeking around the corner to make sure none of the kids will catch me on the phone because, obviously, that coveted time of opening gifts and everything else. But I was looking at it because we have a birth mother willing to make a lifelong decision. I have two caseworkers that are in person working with this birth mother to help her sign consent. I will be a team player and step aside and help them through it. That had to happen, and it did.

Ron Reigns:

They say that a good boss will never ask you or tell you to do anything they’re unwilling to do themselves. I can attest to you, for Lisa, all of us, have made these sacrifices through the years over and over.

Ron Reigns:

Even when I was dating Lisa, it was, okay, we’ll go to a movie, but she’s going to have to duck out two or three times almost every time. We’re going to sit at a coffee shop, and I won’t be able to talk to her and get to know her because she’s on the phone talking to a case manager or a birth mother and putting out fires and dealing with crises. It is a lifestyle I have grown accustomed to and love, even with its flaws.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

It is. I can’t tell you how many. Three of my girls have been in the choir at the high school. There are different levels of the choir, so, as a parent, they don’t allow you to leave after your child has sung in their part. You sit for the other hour listening to everybody else’s child sing.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

It never fails, never, that when it’s my child’s time, there’s the phone and the answering service, so I know it’s severe, and I’ve got to step out. That’s when I’m whispering to my husband, “Start recording,” because I want to be able to say-

Ron Reigns:

I want this.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

That I saw it, in those moments, you become resentful at times because you think, “I don’t want to sacrifice my time as a parent.” But simultaneously, when you commit to somebody else sacrificing their life, you must ensure you’re doing your part. So I have missed that moment in the choir concert, or I have missed that excellent football tackle that I wish I hadn’t missed.

Ron Reigns:

That you can’t get back, indeed.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

At the same time, I want to ensure that we’re teaching our children that there are a lot of pluses. We’re blessed that both my husband and I, like you and Lisa, are in the same field, so we understand very much what the sacrifices are. We’re teaching our children this is an excellent way of giving back. We do encourage them to volunteer time and help put stamps on envelopes and things like that because it’s essential, and we do want them, as we said earlier, to adopt our passion and share in our beliefs-

Ron Reigns:

I think it’s vital to show a child, a young person, what commitment looks like and what that entails, again, the positives and the negatives of it, but how blessed you can be for making a commitment and holding to it doing the right thing. I think that it’s impressive that your kids understand that. Sure, there will be times they resent it, but I think it will lead them to be more fulfilled.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

We get the question, “How much longer do you have to text as we watch the series?” Yeah, they do. It’s super hard. It doesn’t make it easy, but that’s what a pause button is for. If that’s such a great scene that we don’t want to pause, then that’s on me. Keep playing it, I’ll keep texting, and I’ll catch up. There are lots of ways to.

Ron Reigns:

Deal with it.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Could you make it a little bit better? But I thought it would be really fun to have some of our kids come on if I can grab a few and see what their perception is. They’re not going to be coached. They have an idea of what it’s about, but I’m not pushing a button on a robot.

Ron Reigns:

We’re going to get an objective truth from a family member. I like it.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

I asked one of our kiddos to come in and talk today because I thought it would be fun for our listeners to hear their perspective on having two parents that work in the adoption world and one of them having been adopted. I know that our work in the adoption field spills over into our family life.

Logan:

Yes.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

I know that sometimes that’s not always positive.

Logan:

Sometimes. It is. It depends. When we have babies come down, it’s not just on you guys because then we have to. Emma will watch the kid. So it is like we’re also involved. Then we have to keep the house sanitized and safe, especially now because Corona is a baby house. It leaks over. It’s not just a regular nine-to-five because not only do you guys work at home, the home is sort of like your second office.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Agree. What is something that you love about us working in the adoption world versus what you dislike about us working in the adoption world?

Logan:

Okay. I love to see you all’s faces when you get a new baby, or you make a match because that makes you guys the happiest in the world. I don’t like your hours, because you can be working until 8:00 or even midnight, it just depends. I don’t like the sketchy hours, but the outcomes are always good.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Okay. How do you feel that that affects you in terms of your life? In other words, do you think that it robs you of time?

Logan:

It takes away, but it’s not that big of a deal because it’s not all the time. But it does take away because you’ll either be on the phone or have to figure some affidavit or something with the workers or on the phone with your workers or figuring out which baby goes where or to which hospital.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

I have to say, you are an outstanding sport. I know it was-

Logan:

That’s why I’m your favorite.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

It was the back-to-school night a few years ago, and we had a baby.

Logan:

That was funny.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

I had the baby with me, and we had to go in and do the meet-the-teacher night. Logan and Emma were very understanding and didn’t vocalize embarrassment as I was carrying around a newborn and meeting all their teachers.

Logan:

Can I say one other thing? I just thought of this, which isn’t suitable for your kids. Since you guys work in the industry where you see nasty stuff-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

We see a lot of drugs-

Logan:

Yeah, a lot of drugs and alcohol.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

A lot of unplanned pregnancies.

Logan:

Yeah. You guys are not overbearing, but you’re overprotective in many ways because of what you see. If you were working in construction or as a nurse or something, you wouldn’t be so. It’s like a dentist. Dentists’ kids are always going to make their kids brush their teeth.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Okay, so you’re saying that our work opinions are spilling over into our parenting.

Logan:

Yes, obviously.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Okay. Is that positive or negative?

Logan:

Well, it’s both. It’s positive when it counts. You guys don’t let us go to parties that much. If I was going to a party and you said no, and then that party got shot up, it would’ve been a good thing, like you all did, but if it didn’t, it’s iffy.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

So you’re saying that because we see things in our work like drugs and unplanned pregnancies and rape situations, we’re more protective and that influences our parenting, which limits what you’re able to do as a teenager.

Logan:

Yes, what we’re able to do, what we’re able to experience. The high school experience hasn’t been the best, but it hasn’t been the worst.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Do you think that the fact that we do deal with so many unplanned pregnancies is an excellent form of sex education?

Logan:

Yeah.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

All the stories around the dinner table.

Logan:

Yeah. We don’t want to have any unplanned pregnancies while we are under the age of 18, or we can’t financially support any of our-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Surprises.

Logan:

Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

What do you tell your friends about what we do and how you feel about it?

Logan:

You influence the next generation. You’re putting someone that might not have the best opportunities in a way better place. They could be the person to cure cancer or create the next big social media app. You’re changing the generation. You’re saving it.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

How do you think that my adoption, my personal adoption experience, affects the family or the household or our work?

Logan:

Well, your adoption, I think, guides you into the field that you’re in, as well as the DKE Foundation. That’s helped so many people. I think that’s, in at least your work life, that’s helped. I don’t know how that’s changed in your personal life besides the apparent fact that we have two sets of grandparents. I don’t think you let that change who you are as a person.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Okay.

Ron Reigns:

One thing I know about the adoption industry and people in it, at least on our end with Lisa and me, is that almost every family member you have gets drawn into this business as well. Lisa has had brothers and sisters. My son does quite a bit of work for her. You’re a little younger now, but you’re reaching adulthood. I know that she has you doing some things for the company. What kind of things do you do in the adoption field yourself?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

You’ve passed out flyers.

Logan:

Oh yeah, I guess we did.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Yes, you did.

Ron Reigns:

You take the bass fishing.

Logan:

Yeah, I took Mom fishing. I boost the morale.

Ron Reigns:

There you go. Before, you had talked about how it is more difficult being the child of somebody who works in this field because they see the darker side, the raw side of life, and the hardships that some people’s decisions make them go through. You’ve said that’s hard because you are a little more restricted than some of your friends. But tell me honestly, do you think in the future, as you become an adult and start building your own life, do you think will positively serve you?

Logan:

Well, I think that. This is probably not the best philosophy, but I think the best thing, at least for how I work as an individual, I learn from experience. I don’t learn from people’s stories. So I think that in some aspects, I’d instead get burned than someone tell me about getting burned because that becomes more linked in your head. In some aspects, it’d be better for your parents to make you make mistakes, as long as they’re not going to destroy your future.

Ron Reigns:

What career would you like to go into if you? What are you pursuing?

Logan:

I will go into the Navy as either an intelligence specialist or a nuclear engineer, depending on what I get on my ASVAB. After I do eight or four years, I will go either get my master’s. If I go as a nuclear engineer, I can go to school for free and get my master’s in nuclear engineering because how the Navy does it is you’ll get college credits when they teach you. I can leave my bachelor’s after eight years, then get my master’s. Or if I go into an intelligence specialist, I’m going to get my bachelor’s in criminology or psychology and then go into the FBI.

Ron Reigns:

Okay. Now, both of those avenues take a lot of studies. They take a lot of dedication and commitment. Now, do you think seeing Kelly and Adam, your father, and their dedication and commitment to their career, and how much they have forsaken for their career, do you think that’s going to help guide you and give you that structure you need as you get through this aspect of your life?

Logan:

Well, yeah, for a couple of reasons. First of all, they lead by example. We see how successful they’ve been, monetarily or financially, but how happy they’ve become and how much they’ve changed other people’s lives. We see that, and we’ve seen the work that goes into it. They lead by example. And not only that, but to work in a field such as adoption, they have a very high mental fortitude. They can get through a lot, and they’ve passed that on to us. They’ve passed on an excellent work ethic. They’re someone we can lean on.

Logan:

I’m guaranteeing the Navy will not be easy, and I will want to call Mom and be like, “Hey, Mom, this sucks right now, but I want to talk to you. I miss you guys.” Yeah, they will be tremendous assets for us in the future.

Ron Reigns:

I got to say that I’ve worked with you, for instance, doing the roofing on the house and-

Ron Reigns:

I’ve seen your work, and you aren’t a slacker. You’re somebody who will put in the effort needed to get a job done. I think no matter which avenue you take, you will be successful. I think that’s a testament to Adam and Kelly and how they’ve raised you, and how they’ve shown you what hard work gives you and how you have to put yourself forward. I’ve got no doubts about your future.

Logan:

They raised us right. That’s for sure.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

This is Ava. She is almost 16, and pretty much her whole life, actually her whole life, I have worked in the adoption world. I was pregnant with her when I started the agency with Angie, so she has never known anything different. She has always been in the adoption world and watched it from the outside and the inside, looking in since I was adopted. Is the adoption world something that you would ever want to work in?

Ava:

No.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

How come?

Ava:

You just seem busy all the time.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Okay. I know that you like to go when I have gone, and we’ve done videos and things at the office with some of the women.

Ava:

Oh yeah, that was an excellent experience.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Okay. What is it you like about going? Because you ask me frequently if you can go and be there. You like to interact with a lot of the birth mothers.

Ava:

Yeah, that’s what I like the most, just seeing who they are, the type of people they are, and the different kinds of women that come in. It’s cool.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

What’s cool about it?

Ava:

Just getting to know-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Their lives?

Ava:

Their lives. Yeah.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Have you learned from them?

Ava:

Yes, I have.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

What are some things that you’ve taken away? I know some of them when they come up to me. When you’re standing by me, and you’re holding a camera for me, or my phone or something, they’ll come up and say, “Is that your daughter?” and I smile and nod. Then they’ll talk to you a little bit, and your whole face will light up. Why do you think that is?

Ava:

I just like talking to different people. I just think it’s cool to see the experiences they’re going through and hear about that.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Do you think you’ve learned anything from it?

Ava:

I’ve learned how they just seem so relieved to have an option. I remember looking at one girl, and she was just ecstatic to be able to adopt her baby.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

To place her baby for adoption?

Ava:

Yeah.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Yeah. How much do you think that my personal adoption experience has influenced what I do?

Ava:

I think it inspired you.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Okay. I know you don’t know any different because you’ve always had an adopted mom, but what do you tell your friends? How do you bring up what I do for a living and the fact that I was adopted? Do you ever talk about it?

Ava:

I talk about what you do for a living. I sometimes bring up the fact that you’re adopted if they continue to ask about it more. I usually just say that you own an adoption agency and a foundation.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Okay. I know sometimes you like passing out literature and brochures at school.

Ava:

Yeah.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Why do you like to do that?

Ava:

I just like to support you.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Do you like to support me as a mom, or do you like to support the mission of adoption?

Ava:

Both.

Ron Reigns:

Regarding your friends, we also talked about this a little bit with Logan, but do you notice a difference? There are certain things that them working in the adoption field will be different. It’s a 24-hour-a-day job. You can’t count on being able to sit down with mom and dad and watch a movie. It’s here goes the phone again. Mom’s got to go, and Adam’s got to go and do something. You can’t count on that time all the time. But what other differences do you see in your life due to their career that you see in your friends’ lives, for instance, or you just don’t notice that maybe?

Ava:

I don’t notice it.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Do you think that we’re stricter because of what we see?

Ava:

Oh yeah, you’re way stricter.

Ron Reigns:

In what ways?

Ava:

She’s very cautious about whenever I go out. You just get weird about certain things.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Okay. That’s okay to talk about it. Like what?

Ava:

I don’t know whenever we’re talking about my friend or whenever I don’t know.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Do you think that because of what we see, drug use, a lot of unplanned pregnancies and rape situations, and things like that, you think that we are more open in terms of how we talk to you about those things?

Ava:

Yeah.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Do you think that we are more restrictive because we don’t want you to go down the avenues of what we see daily?

Ava:

Yeah, I do.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

How does that affect you?

Ava:

It can be a bit much sometimes, but I know you care, so I appreciate it.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

I think these are probably as realistic teenage answers as anybody could get.

Ron Reigns:

Absolutely. Now, do you think that will serve you in the future? I mean, sure, they’re restrictive, but do you think that’ll help you go, “You know what, there’s a reason that they were that way”? Do you think it’s a good thing or-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Oh yeah.

Ron Reigns:

Okay. I’m just curious because I looked at when I was a kid, and my mom would say, “No, I don’t want you going and staying out until 1:00 in the morning with your friends,” at the time, I was a little resentful, but even back then in the back of my head, I was like, “I know she’s right,” but of course, I didn’t like it still.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

What is the hardest thing you think about as a child of parents working in the adoption world? What’s the most challenging aspect?

Ava:

The amount of time you have to work.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

That’s interesting to me that you would choose that over us being more restrictive.

Ava:

Yeah. I rather would just spend time with you-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Yeah. I will say-

Ron Reigns:

I think I’m going to cry. That was the sweetest thing. That was nice.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

I will say there was something that both Adam and I, I think, was a realization. As parents, you’re going all the time, and you’re working all the time, and sometimes you don’t stop and see how others perceive it. There was an art project that you had to do where you made a shield. This will be the last question that we ask you. Will you talk about that shield, what it was supposed to be, and what we did? Was it last year?

Ron Reigns:

It was this year, or last year, whatever.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

It was an art project, right?

Ron Reigns:

It was an art project. It was a shield, and there were four spaces. You had to do your hobbies, something that represents your family, something you want to get better at, and then future goals. I just did time for the family, and then I did a big phone.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

She turned, obviously, this paper into the teacher. It was one of those moments that you look back on and think, “That’s really not what we would have wanted to be reflected as,” but it was real and raw.

Ron Reigns:

Thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption. Suppose you’re listening to and dealing with an unplanned pregnancy and want more information about adoption. In that case, Building Arizona Families is a local Arizona adoption agency available 24/7 by phone or text at 623-695-4112. That’s 623-695-4112. We can make an immediate appointment with you to start creating an Arizona adoption plan or just get you more information. You can also find more information about Building Arizona Families at azpregnancyhelp.com.

Ron Reigns:

Thanks also to Grapes for allowing us to use their song I Dunno as our theme song. Birth Mother Matters in Adoption was written and produced by Kelly Rourke-Scarry and edited by me. Please rate and review this podcast wherever you’re listening to us. We’d appreciate it. We also now have a website at birthmothermatterspodcast.com. Tune in next time on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption. For Kelly Rourke-Scarry, I’m Ron Reigns.

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